Thursday, July 3, 2008

Jay King: Mine Find or Fake Find


Jay King will be appearing on HSN on Monday during their 24 Hour Silver Celebration and it looks like he even has the TS. I hope that they give him the opportunity to explain exactly what his highly controversial "stabilized block turquoise" really is.


Here are the definitions I found:

Stabilized or treated turquoise is treated with a plastic resin. Most nugget and some heishi products are made from real turquoise that has been stabilized. Stabilization allows genuine but lower-grade turquoise to be used in jewelry. Even when a stone has been stabilized, its color can be changed over time by pollution, soap, skin lotion and oil.

Block turquoise: A mixture of plastic resin and dyes that is produced in loaf-size blocks. This turquoise contains no actual rock of any sort. Block is used heavily for inlay, heishi and beads. It is sometimes mistakenly called "reconstituted."


So basically it has to be either stabilized or block, but it can NOT be both.

I hope this was simply an innocent error on the part of a product description writer and not an underhanded attempt to rip-off customers.

Please, please, please--for the sake of your reputation--address this issue!!!


Here's what Paul Deasy had to say about the controversy:

I must preface this by saying that I have not spoken to Jay King since I left HSN, and I am not familiar with what HSN is selling on the air as block turquoise. I find Jay to be a very reputable guy and I like him very much. That being said, the industry definition of "block turquoise" is not natural, but simulated turquoise using plastic or other materials that are not turquoise. If this in fact is what HSN is selling, they are obligated to disclose this information. I notice on their website that they describe the pieces as "stablized" block turquoise. Once again, I can't speak for them but stablized and block turquoise usually refer to two different things. Paul

29 comments:

  1. I got an email from Leslie regarding this issue that she agreed to let me share:

    I HAVE AN ANSWER....OF SORTS!!
    I contacted Jay's Company Desert Rose Direct and asked the nice lady who answered the phone if they carried any Nako turquoise. She said no, they send all of that over to China. I then explained the problem I was having getting a straight answer from HSN about the term "block" used in the description. She explained that instead of stabilizing lots of small individual pieces of turquoise they put a lot of turquoise together when they stabilize it and it comes out like one big block like a turquoise casserole. The turquoise is not ground down or degraded in any way and remains just they way they got it only many pieces are used to create the block they end up with. I reiterated the industry definitions for "block" and she explained that there really is no official industry term for what they are doing to the rough. They are creating a block of turquoise but it is not ground into powder and reconstituted nor is it synthetic. They seem to take advantage of the resins and polymers as well as the heat and pressure that is used as part of the normal stabilization process and take the whole thing one step further. All of Jay's "block" turquoise is genuine turquoise only it seems to be a turquoise collage.

    Thank you, Leslie!

    So what do you think? Turquoise casserole??? Yummy!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. wonder why they would tell you that nako turquoise goes to china. as I got two nako pendants from hsn. and they were beautiful

      Delete
    2. For further clarity, and as proof, here is the transcript of that entire sales presentation by Jay King and Connie Craig-Carroll for that necklace, which aired on HSN on April 13, 2018 from 8 p.m. to 9 p.m. Eastern time.

      It was toward the end of the hour, and it was for the presentation on Item 601-600 "Jay King 3-Row Multicolor Turquoise Bead 18" Sterling Silver Necklace" which Jay King and Connie Craig-Carroll also referred to as the "Colors of Turquoise" necklace.

      Notice how, during the presentation, Jay King and Connie Craig-Carroll have plenty of time to discuss how nicely it lays on the neck, the process of cutting and sorting, everything but the fact that the turquoise is compressed and color treated. They seem to spend a lot of time "educating" their consumers, but when you really analyze their sales pitch, what they have really done is mislead people.

      I'm not saying all of Jay King's turquoise is compressed or color treated, just that he should clearly state what is so informed buyers can make a decision. If Jay King, HSN and Connie Craig-Carroll and other HSN hosts use deceptive sales tactics of omission, it makes consumers like me not trust them or know what is safe to buy.

      I may have to break this post into several posts as blogger thinks this post is too long.

      Delete
    3. Transcript of the on-air presentation by Jay King and Connie Craig-Carroll of the "Colors of Turquoise" necklace:

      Connie Craig-Carroll: “We’re going to move next to my turquoise necklace. This I love, because you all know I love turquoise, and I love every color of turquoise, I really really do. And I collect turquoise. So if you’re like me and you’re a collector, this gives you an opportunity to wear your turquoise back with this necklace, literally every single color that you have. Whether you have more green turquoise, more blue turquoise, ***even if you’re lucky enough to have the purple turquoise,*** and in this case, you are getting three strands. Now, we used to do a single strand of the “Colors of Turquoise” for $99. In a single strand. Here we’re doing three for $119. This is going to be $149; we’re doing it for $119 today, and I love once again, these are perfectly round beads.”

      Jay King: “And they’re cut; ***this is not nugget-compressed material. This is cut from solid turquoise, which is what all the viewers were requesting.*** And for us, we burn through a lot of material, and there is so much waste. I hate to sound like a broken record or like I’m bitter (Connie and Jay both laugh) but I have to tell you, when you see the massive amount of turquoise that it takes to make one of these designs, but this is just so popular, we’ve done this before, but just like what Connie was saying, normally, what did we sell–just an 18″ nugget beaded necklace $99 to $129 for one. These are all round beads, and you’ve got, this (necklace) is called “The Color of Turquoise.” You got three different mines here, so you got three totally different rough materials, different looks, but ***it’s all the real deal.”***

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    4. Transcript continues of on-air presentation by Jay King and Connie Craig-Carroll of the "Colors of Turquoise" necklace:

      Connie: “And it’s 18 inches, but you can drop it down to 20 3/4″ and Jay!”

      Jay: “And then Sue’s got in on, and she torsaded it, which really looks cool, too.”

      Connie: “But Jay, turquoise prices have gone up, right?”

      Jay: “They’re not–well, it’s (unintelligible) –jeez (unintelligible)…”

      Connie: (laughs) “You’re like, ‘just find it'”

      Jay: “Yeah, yeah, yeah, find it. And here’s the thing. The only reason we can do what we do — and I probably shouldn’t say this — but the reason that we can do it is we actually go to the mines. We actually go out. And I can’t tell you how much money I spend a year traveling and that we spend acquiring turquoise. We go all over the world to get it. But the thing that we have is, we have the ability to stockpile, buy and stockpile because of everybody out here in HSN.”

      (Connie announces a sell-out of another item, Jay congratulates those who got the sold-out item)

      Jay: “The thing with the turquoise, though, is, just like Connie says, it’s going up, but it’s just finding it, and finding the good quality turquoise, you just don’t see it, and when you do find it, if you don’t know the right people, if you’re not right at the mine, the prices are like ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. That’s why you just see people making cabochons. Right? They don’t make beads.”

      Connie: “But Jay, they also color match these.”

      (Note from me: SHE IS TALKING ABOUT COLOR MATCHING COLORED DYED TURQUOISE which of course is going to be color matched since it is DYED.)

      Jay: “Yeah, well, that’s the thing.”

      Connie: “Yeah.”

      Jay: “Well, and color matching comes, when it comes out of the mine, the first thing you do, grade by size, second, grade by color. So it’s a whole process, right, and there is no turquoise mine where it comes out all the exact same. It’s gonna have different varieties and so you have to put that together. But then to be able to do this and then match them where we did a graduated color pattern. Now you have to understand, there’s three individual mines that you’re seeing here, there’s three actual individual mines here.”

      Connie: “So you’re matching, well, first off, you’re cutting the individual beads,”

      Jay: “And you’re wasting.”

      Connie: (laughs) “You’re cutting, you’re matching, you’re hand stringing, so I mean the labor-intensive process and then also too, to do — and believe me, Jay has tried to impart this wisdom on me — to do three graduated strands is a whole lot more difficult than to just do three individual strands, right?”

      Delete
    5. Transcript continues of on-air HSN presentation by Jay King and Connie Craig-Carroll of the "Colors of Turquoise" necklace:

      Jay: “Yeah, and here’s the thing too, it’s can you imagine to take this and layer it and where it actually nestles perfectly and it graduates down your neckline perfectly. That’s a huge process in its own right is to be able to that to where when you put it on, you don’t have to sit there and mess with it forever and ever. We’ve done the hard part. We’ve layered it for ya, so it goes right down the neckline perfectly. And Sue, this is great that Sue’s doing this. So think of the versatility of this necklace. You can three strands, you can torsade it, like Sue’s done here, she can actually wear that a little higher, she can wear it lower, you can have it like Connie where she’s got it nestled on the neckline, but depending on the outfit she’s wearing or what she wants to do to accessorize with it, because it’s got a 2 3/4″ extender she can wear it a little bit higher, if she wants to bring it down, she can bring it down, so it fits perfectly with the outfit. So you’re not, you’re making one purchase, but you’re getting a lot of different looks with that one purchase.”

      Connie: “And a lot of different colors so it’s going to go back with everything you’ve collected in turquoise. We’re a moment past the clock, we’re going to be wrapping this one up shortly. They’ve just told me with everybody onboard, maybe about 100 left in this one, and when it comes back it will be at that higher price for sure.”

      Jay: “For sure.”

      Connie: “For sure. So I hope you can do this. I really do. It’s one of my favorites in host pick.”

      --end of presentation

      Delete
    6. I surrounded all of the especially misleading statements by Jay King and Connie Craig-Carroll with asterisks *** as I could not seem to find a way to use bold face.

      Again, as anyone can see, it is a very lengthy "educational" HSN presentation, yet nowhere do they mention that the purple turquoise in Jay King's necklace is compressed or color treated. I wonder just how difficult is it to color match COLORED purple turquoise that is dyed in one large chemical batch??? It isn't difficult at all, wouldn't you think??? So why make such a big deal of it?

      Also, instead of Jay King simply stating, "This is compressed purple turquoise," instead he goes out of his way to state the opposite:

      Jay King: "This is not nugget-compressed material."

      Then, perhaps in a skillful legal maneuver, he adds, "This is CUT FROM SOLID TURQUOISE, which is what all the viewers were requesting."

      I guess technically, compressed BLOCK TURQUOISE could be considered "solid turquoise," but it certainly IS compressed!! So yeah, Jay King is lying.

      I do like many of his pieces, and that is why I wish he would not tell mistruths or as I would call it, lying by omission, which HSN seems particularly good at.

      And then for Connie Craig-Carroll to state, "even if you’re lucky enough to have the purple turquoise," like collecting color enhanced purple turquoise is a collector's dream, especially when it is compressed! At that point, it might as well not even be called "turquoise" except by the loosest definition. I certainly wouldn't call it "collectible."

      But of course, the next time it will be on the air, they state at the end that it will be at the higher price (really?? for color stabilized, compressed turquoise??). They can't do the lower price again?

      I will still buy some of Jay King, as I like his some of his items, but I always check the HSN website for the details (since they go out of their way not to give them on air). But even now, when checking HSN.com, I start to wonder just how much the turquoise has been altered, and exactly what they do when they "stabilize" it. I have read their definitions, but since they are not being honest with me about their compressed turquoise, it makes me wonder about the quality of their turquoise in general.

      Delete
  2. The process which DRT uses is actually a trade secret but not the same as other companies tend to use to "stablize"

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  3. I would be as concerned about other nonsense that is spewed on his programs. His defense of "rainbow calsilica" as a genuine stone was a bit laughable. Most people in the industry consider it manmade. I think HSN really needs to investigate what that man is saying. I have no problem with treating gemstones- most on the market are- I have a problem with dishonesty as it makes everyone in the industry look crooked. If his turquoise is some sort of "turquoise casserole" then he should not be calling it 100% natural on the television.

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  4. I agree with all you have said about Jay King's jewelry. His turquoise quality is poor! And he talks about Hubei as if it were on par with Sleeping Beauty, Kingman, or any of the top quality turquoise found here in the US....just look at his pieces, lots of the stones look like they are just tar, no blue at all...reconstituted, stabilized, crap. I also HATE his cheap-looking made in China & Thailand designs...they ALL look bizarre to me, and his endless use of jasper and calling it "gemstones" is ridiculous. As someone whose family are long-time Indian silversmiths, I KNOW quality when I see it. His isn't it...many of his pieces remind me of when as kids someone picks up gravel and thinks it looks good. Endless browns and greys, it sucks!

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    Replies
    1. I have several high blue turquoise pendants that I have purchased from jay king. they are beautiful. also his company desert rose trading is in new mexico

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    2. Jasper is a gemstone, it's called an opaque stone.By the way most stones do come out of the ground, I think you're rude and have little knowledge of the variety of gemstones

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  5. So, if I have some DTR turquoise rings & braclet, that are 6 to 10 years old, they could be faux stones. or is this process something more recent. or has this been the way thay have done buisness all along?

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  6. Why has Jay King never paid Gemco Mining of Honduras for all the black matrix opal he sold on HSN. Is Jays partner Terry Snyder still in a Florida State Prison? Jay why did you never pay? You made money. This was Jay's 11Th anniversary sale for Honduras Black Matrix Opal. You know what they call boys like you Jay?

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  7. I think all u people are wrong I have bought many pieces and they are lovely.They are artistic and thousands of people have bought his jewelry they all cant be wrong.Thank you Jay from bringing your beautiful jewelry to us.

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  8. This is all interesting reading after hearing from my mother about her percieved view of how, where, and the upmost honesty from Jay King and his jewelry. I came home and reviewed her purchaces and the truth is that her stones and where her items were made were in China! Please people-check it out before you buy anything on home shopping. Too Slick! She was manipulated into thinking he had the honesty of god.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. mine doesn't say made in china. where on the pieces does it say that

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    2. Check the SS hook on your necklace. It will say China. Also, he admitted on one of his HSN shows that his jewelry was made in China.

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    3. All of the product descriptions on HSN have country of origin. His says China. He's not trying to hide it but he does seem a little disingenuous when he talks about his "team". You picture a group of artisans cranking out the goods but really that's unrealistic considering the volume he produces.

      Delete
  9. Look in ebay for his items, and then look for other similar items, half price, more silver, better designs... you are paying a trademark not the silver or gemstones. I do not think it can be called jewelry to stringing lots of beads on a string, adding a silver clasp and done.

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  10. i bought a pendant and the bail was not silver
    both strands were the same lengh and did not lay properly

    ReplyDelete
  11. I too purchased several pieces of Jay King's "natural" stone jewelry. I took a few pieces to a local jeweler for minor size adjustments and was informed the jewelry pieces were marked made in China and that blue stones were sodalite misrepresented as something else. I have destinctly heard Jay during many presentations brag that his pieces are natural and designed and made by his organization. What he didn't mention is it appears his organization is located in China.

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  12. strange that your jeweler would say such a thing. as ive taken my gemstones to several different jewelers. each with the same story of not being into those rare stones such as jays. saying they would have to send them out and have them tested. with a 75.00 fee of course. most jewelers only deals in same old stuff, peridot, garnets ect. and when asked where their stones comes from. none seem to know..lol

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  13. I have purchased many of Jay's pieces for years, and most arrive with beads broken, or the necklace wire is not attached to the end, thus it could not be worn. I could repair it myself, buy why should I at the price he's charging?? Plus, the "turquoise" pieces look like plastic. I ordered several pieces at one time, and only kept one necklace. I sent the rest back due to broken pieces or poor quality control. I have purchased my LAST piece from him. Will seek out local silversmiths (and not from China!) whose jewelry pieces are excellent, and the turquoise they use are actual pieces and not turquoise chips all jumbled together to make up one stone. Instead of calling it 'Jay's Mine Finds', his jewelry should be called 'Jay's Junky Jewelry'!!

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    Replies
    1. I agree. we keep having to fix one of his neclaces with glue. I wont buy from him again.

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  14. I'm a trained jeweler and I would NEVER buy this garbage. His jewelry is a joke. Also, rainbow calsilica is 100% MAN-MADE!

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  15. I just ordered from Jay a Sterling silver Rainbow Calsilica ring. I have watched the presentations several times. I have been collecting gems for over 20 years. It should be in my mail today. During the time of waiting for shipment I really researched this "gem". I am 100% convinced it is not a natural gem mined from the earth. I will be returning the ring no matter how nice. I am really interested in the real gems, not simulants or less.I now feel different about purchasing from his collection but I will just be careful. I have had several problems with just jewelry purchases from HSN over several years. It could just be my unfortunate situation. Thanks to EVERYONE for sharing their comments.Much appreciated.

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  16. Jay King and Connie-Craig Carroll and many others at HSN are still selling compressed turquoise and fake colored turquoise, yet not disclosing it on the air.

    I just want to know WHAT I AM BUYING. Is that too much to ask??

    Recently I watched an extremely long presentation for a three-colored turquoise necklace including "purple turquoise" and two other types of turquoise. Not once could they be bothered to say that the purple turquoise was compressed and color treated.

    In fact, Jay King went out of his way specifically to lie (I hate to think that he would do that, but he did) by saying, "This is not nugget-compressed material. This is cut from solid turquoise, which is what all the viewers were requesting." I kept this show on my DVR because I couldn't believe how long Jay King and Connie Craig-Carroll talked about this "colors of turquoise" necklace and never once mentioned that this was in fact compressed turquoise. Sickening, really.

    I can't believe they are allowed to get away with this?

    Why not just be honest with me, tell me what I am getting, and let me decide if I want to buy it???

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To clarify my above remark, as Jay King and Connie Craig-Carroll were presenting it, I had the presence of mind to go to the item number on the HSN website, 601-600 "Jay King 3-Row Multicolor Turquoise Bead 18" Sterling Silver Necklace" and look at the details. Jay and Connie also refer to this as the "Colors of Turquoise" necklace.

      In the details on the HSN website, it clearly states, "Stabilized Compressed Color-Enhanced Purple Turquoise: Mined in China."

      Most people when in the middle of watching a presentation on TV do not stop and go to the HSN website and check the details of each item! They assume the hosts are telling them the truth.

      During that presentation, despite the HSN website stating "compressed color enhanced purple turquoise" Jay King referred to the turquoise in this necklace as "It’s all the real deal" and "This is cut from solid turquoise" and "This is not nugget-compressed material. This is cut from solid turquoise, which is what all the viewers were requesting."

      The presentation aired Friday April 13, 2018 between 8-9 p.m. Eastern time. Anyone can watch that and compare what they hear on the air with what HSN posts on its website and see that the two do not match. Connie Craig-Carroll even makes the remark "even if you're lucky enough to have the purple turquoise," like collecting fake purple turquoise is something everyone should strive for.

      I enjoy Jay and Connie, I really do, but these kinds of deceptive practices should stop. :(

      Delete

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